The first consumer level VR systems were released in 2016. But three years later, VR still hasn’t quite hit mainstream success —- yet.
What does that mean for education and adult learning? Does the future of VR in Learning have any promise?
In our Wednesday, April 24, 2019 TLDCast, guest Andrew Hughes discussed the current state of VR technology and offered us samples of what is working in training and VR.
Below you’ll find links to the recording of his discussion, links to relevant information, as well as some of the sample videos Andrew shared, and a text transcript of the conversation.
VR Chop and Drop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzieFn9anI
Chop and Drop Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOKacKZuE9w
Delta Airlines Virtual Reality: https://vimeo.com/145922393
American Airlines Virtual Reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiKOUwG09zQ
Lowe’s Holoroom: https://www.facebook.com/within/videos/1300250803442724/
Virtual Virtual Reality: https://store.steampowered.com/app/889480/Virtual_Virtual_Reality/
Wave XR: http://wavexr.com/
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Unknown Speaker 0:10
Good morning, everybody.
Unknown Speaker 0:19
Molly. Hey, Craig.
Luis Malbas 0:29
Welcome everybody, for coming into pod cast. This morning. We have our wonderful sponsor.
Unknown Speaker 0:42
getting some feedback here.
Unknown Speaker 0:46
And your Can you hear me okay?
Unknown Speaker 0:49
Yeah, can you guys hear me?
Luis Malbas 0:51
Yeah, I just had some feedback in there. So I’ll switch phones if I need to know a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 0:58
Unknown Speaker 1:00
Unknown Speaker 1:05
benefits a future.
Unknown Speaker 1:08
Unknown Speaker 1:11
Unknown Speaker 1:15
okay, there I got
Andrew Hughes 1:20
Yeah, I’m getting some technical feedback.
Let me know if it’s my maybe.
Unknown Speaker 1:33
Okay, can you hear me? Okay?
Unknown Speaker 1:36
Is that better, guys?
Andrew Hughes 1:39
I think that’s better.
Luis Malbas 1:44
It’s coming in from your side. Maybe once we
Unknown Speaker 1:46
will be 10 seconds. Okay Luis, you talk about? You started off and I will go see if I got another laptop.
Luis Malbas 1:55
Okay, sounds good. All right, everybody. So today, we actually do kind of have an idea end up with, with Andrew. Andrew from design digitally is absolutely an amazing simulated simulations developer. I’m sure you guys have you guys have seen him on cod cast. He’s been in at least a dozen times. And one of my favorite things to talk about. And I’ve talked about this on TLC cast in the past interview in a couple of years, with Marco for chatting
about VR and AR. And so today we’re going to be covering things like you know, VR trends, ways VR is being used most in the corporate environment, the benefits of VR, actual examples of like companies using VR successfully. We’ve got some some things on the agenda, like Lowes hollow room experiences, which sounds really exciting. And then of course, examples from designing digitally.
Unknown Speaker 2:53
Luis Malbas 2:54
guys, VR experiences that they’ve developed like, they’ve got a VR pizza video that we could share. And then of course, I don’t know if you guys have been to steam and seen the designing digitally chop and drop case study I mean, chop and drop game. And and then we’ve got an HR resource management, serious game case study that we can talk about. And so and good morning, Alina Dominica. Nice to see you. So you want to test it a little bit? Andrew, can we can you hear me? Can we hear you
see what we got going? Andrew had a little bit of trouble on the technical side this morning. So that’s why he’s in his conference room. with with with the overhead webcam. And so just so you guys have some background on why I like to be in these conversations like 2015, or
maybe early 2016, you know, getting an an HTC Vive and really kind of jumping into VR back then it was kind of in prep for, for our, for our actually the TL dc 16 conference. And that thing, that device absolutely just changed the way I looked at technology and just computing in general, it was absolutely amazing. I couldn’t get off of my HTC Vive for a while I was just in there all the time, just exploring. And this was three years ago. It is such an amazing experience. And
and so I’m just always excited to talk VR, you know, have I have a lot of experience with like being on Steam and just downloading game after game after game? And I kind of want to talk to, to to Andrew, a little bit about that two years. Are you there? I hear some audio?
Yes, yes. No, I guess. Okay, well, just to start you off, what I’m going to do is I’m going to paste in some links to, to some of designing digitally.
Unknown Speaker 5:03
Some of the resources that they have
Unknown Speaker 5:06
VR, providing resources.
Luis Malbas 5:09
So here is I hope it’s okay to share your VR pizza maker video.
Andrew Hughes 5:16
I actually, you know what, here’s what I’ll do. I’ll actually share my screen, I have it up.
Unknown Speaker 5:21
Andrew Hughes 5:22
guys, let’s see. And I know it’s hard to hear me guys, I apologize. My Computer decided to die about half an hour before this meeting. So I’m trying to do it in the conference room. And I’m trying to get another computer to login. But I know luis may have been talking about this. And I haven’t turned down because apparently there’s an echo. But here designing digitally, we’ve been doing these very cool VR experiences around a few things. Number one, what some of the most popular things that we’ve been doing VR experiences with our a lot of the hands on job roles or field training, whether they’re actually going out and doing these exercises, or whether it’s to make pizza or so on and so forth. And one of the major reasons we find this to be beneficial. A lot of our clients are in the restaurant or food industry. And what you may or may not know is they are required to throw out the food that they use when training the employees on how to make burgers, certain pizzas, so on and so forth. Well, that cost and that expense really adds up for the volume in which a company such as dominoes, or Pizza Hut, or any other large franchise organization has to do when they’re training all of these different employees. So what we were able to do is we have a price barrier that we all know about with the higher end HTC Vive and the Oculus Rift. So what we actually did is we started to develop out with the Oculus go, which is under $200, to allow us to build these learning experiences with an affordable hardware device. And so we’re currently working with a client, and we have what’s called pizza hero, where we’re actually you are in the VR experience learning how to make this particular company’s pizzas, and the processes and the steps, and so on and so forth. So I’ll kind of show you this just briefly. But you’re wearing the Oculus go VR headset, it is one controller. And it does give you kind of a walkthrough of what you’re supposed to do for this particular lesson. From here, anything like randomization of what you’re supposed to put down in the pizzas, and then it’s your responsibility to free range, actually, I develop out and build that pizza yourself in this VR space. So not only that, but we are going through those processes and confirming that you have done it correctly, based on the steps that we want you to do. And you can get a little ridiculous with it, if you would like. Again, we want it to be a little fun. Because it’s about learning the processes not necessarily being concerned if they make a mess, things like that.
From here, these types of and you’re just looking at one walkthrough of one type pizza. There are many games built outside of this, that are challenging them to make it harder and harder to complete. They have to complete the pizzas faster and faster. And they have to really start to know exactly what we’re what topics and how those are the replays and at what
temperature or what area on the actual oven do they go and how long.
And so by immersing them in doing this, they’re actually going to be able to experience it without that calm override of having to pay to throw away all that food or to utilize the food to train them on how to make these.
Luis Malbas 9:08
Wow, that is that is amazing. What a great idea. You know,
Andrew Hughes 9:14
looking at this, this is a low price point, because what I mean is not price quote from the development side, but we’re using something that we could actually afford now. So we can get these out to the masses, we can buy, you know, 100 of these and if not, absolutely break the bank and we don’t need to, you know, additional computers and plugs and so on and so forth. This is a self contained VR system.
Unknown Speaker 9:39
So wait, So Kendra, can you hear me okay?
Unknown Speaker 9:42
Yeah. Okay, so which VR system is this for? This is just for
Andrew Hughes 9:46
Oculus go. Give me just a second. I’ll show you guys.
Unknown Speaker 9:52
So this is for the
Unknown Speaker 9:53
Andrew Hughes 9:58
So the Oculus go is right here. Okay, and this one is the, like the mid range VR system. From Oculus, and it’s self contained. It’s basically a I, you know, free range could walk around and take it with you. I usually have it in my in my rolling back. But it’s a fully immersive 3d spatial, it’s not a video player, it doesn’t take your your phone in it. It’s all 3d spatial, just like the five or the Oculus Rift is just at a lower price points. And it has its own store, and has quite a few different games, there’s quite a few free games for you to play. You can set up virtual desktop, you can watch movies in there. One of the things I did just the other last month or so was I actually took it with me on a plane and watch the movie. It was really interesting, because I could watch that whole movie. And I’m sure everybody else thought I looked ridiculous. But um, I didn’t even know I was on a plane because I was in that immersive environment sitting on a couch watching Netflix.
Luis Malbas 11:11
Wow. So I wait. And that’s the one that’s $499
Andrew Hughes 11:15
Yeah, this is the one for $199. And it’s fully 3d spatial. It’s fully, you know, equivalent, I would say, obviously, the Vive in the rift or higher end when it comes to graphics quality. But this gives you that fully immersive 3d spatial, it is the step forward. for VR devices, it’s no longer just a video.
Unknown Speaker 11:38
Wow, that’s pretty
Andrew Hughes 11:40
multiplayer, too. So you can see it right here. It’s actually multiplayer. Um, so you and I can actually meet in here Luis connects to your Facebook account. And we could meet in here and play these games together, chat, watch a movie together, whenever we would like to do
it’s got better than a voice and 3d spatial sound into it. So it’s pretty incredible that these spatial sound even though you don’t have headphones on, you can hear everything in detail. And and it you know, if you hear something happened behind you, they have built it in. So it sounds like it’s coming from behind you even though you don’t have headphones on.
Luis Malbas 12:20
Wow, that is
Andrew Hughes 12:22
opinion, this has been a leap ahead for VR devices. And so the other side of it is it’s not like steam. So one of the biggest differences as we may or may not know, the difference between the Android and the iOS or the Apple Store is Apple has a very strict process and screening process for their apps. Yeah, wow, Android is almost a free for all.
It’s the same type of way for the Oculus steam, it’s usually almost a free for all at this point, while Oculus be very selective on the actual games and the applications that you’ll be able to implement on to the go.
And the reason why is you can see here are them in pretty much order. In my opinion, yeah, this is pretty dead on right there, for the, you know, level of sophistication.
And so I don’t know this guy, but he was the first YouTube videos, wherever he is, you’re now famous.
But outside of that, what we’re finding is, you know, it has a single controller. And you can pair because it’s Bluetooth, you can pair keyboard, you compare
joysticks, you know, Bluetooth controllers, you compare whatever you want through Bluetooth to it. So it allows you to use different hardware, not just that
single device, but they are tricky. So you have to program them and map them together.
Luis Malbas 13:57
Wow. Have you just did you? Have you seen any organizations? Or have you been in any environments where things are like being used specifically for for training purposes, like, you know, I
Andrew Hughes 14:11
actually have, we’re working on a couple projects where we just had a electric company by
probably, I’d say, 300 of those, oh my gosh, wow. And they’re not going to be using them. But you know, in the perspective of the companies that, you know, we interact with, that’s a that’s a very, very, very small demographic and population. So as technology evolves, in the next couple of years, what we will see is we’ll see more and more of these become cheaper and cheaper. And one of the things that I think is fascinating in the go is they have what’s called Virtual Desktop, which basically is a large screen desktop. And I can Remote Desktop into my computer. And it’s pretty amazing, because I have the fullest largest screen to work on and I’ve ever had in my life.
Luis Malbas 15:05
Wow. And so you’re talking this is what the Oculus go with that?
Unknown Speaker 15:08
Andrew Hughes 15:11
So I can work VPN off of the Oculus go right onto my computer and see my desktop and full screen and work from it from there.
Unknown Speaker 15:20
That is pretty crazy. I
Andrew Hughes 15:24
have virtual desktop, I want to see if I can find it for you guys. Virtual Desktop.
Unknown Speaker 15:35
Right, here it is.
Andrew Hughes 15:41
So you can just log into your computer, and it looks just like this. And it’s your desktop.
And then if you have a Bluetooth keyboard already connected and Bluetooth mouse, and you basically just use it as your computer.
Unknown Speaker 15:59
Unknown Speaker 16:00
blowing your mind.
Luis Malbas 16:01
Yeah, that’s pretty amazing. I just did it. I just didn’t realize for $200 device that it would have that capability.
Andrew Hughes 16:09
Yeah, I’m Luis you’ve known me long enough, I keep an eye on this stuff pretty heavily. So every time a new device comes out that we feel may be able to push the industry. We’re on top of it trying to look to see you know, what its value will be and how it can actually help us.
Luis Malbas 16:30
Right, great. So why don’t we talk about that a little bit, just sort of one at some of the trends that you’re seeing as the prices dropping for these types of devices. And you’re seeing that it’s more and more widespread use, like what what are the trends you’re seeing when it comes to VR?
Andrew Hughes 16:44
Interesting. Okay, so I still see a large trend in AR just because one of the biggest things that I see with VR is we still have hardware that needs to be purchased, we still have to get people in into that experience, there’s a little bit of an orientation piece. Since people are more familiar with their phones, ar has really taken off because we can augment the data and information as we need. What I’m seeing is the RS, I’m seeing a lot of vocational and on the job training experiences being built. What I think is fascinating though, is I also see a lot of them that are just basically, you know, simulated experiences like this, when we can really take it and push it to the extreme. However, we all know corporate training doesn’t like to push things to the extreme. But what I do see is I see a lot more people being open to abstract conceptual ways of training people in VR, whether that’s, you know, learning how to conceptually fix a computer or learning how to become a better leader. We’ve also seen the need and request for coaching,
VR experiences based on looking at people’s body language and the way to handle them as managers. We’ve also seen quite a few different, you know, electrical mind working, Plumbing, Heating and Air, commercial, construction, anything, were there, the risk of someone’s body or somebody being hurt. This was really kind of accelerated that way.
Luis Malbas 18:34
It’s their particular vertical that is really taking on VR, more so than others. You know, that’s
Andrew Hughes 18:40
interesting, I get that question asked a lot. And there isn’t, one of the things I can tell you is one of the verticals, that’s not really looking at it is the banking industry. Because you know that it’s not really their their cup of tea. Some of you have worked at a credit union, you know how that is, and so on. What I do see is more
Unknown Speaker 19:04
Andrew Hughes 19:06
mining, gas and energy.
Companies like that, where they have people out oil, and those people that are out there that are risking their lives to do their job, this is a great barrier to a great way to stop the barrier for someone getting hurt. And so that’s what we’re seeing right now. And I’m sure as we see more case studies come out, we see more success stories from not just us, but other organizations, you’ll start to see more ways of adapting it. And, you know, some of them, I see some of the leadership, VR experiences I’ve seen are pretty fascinating. So I think we’re starting to push that that way. But it all depends on the actual meat of the business anyways. So you know, we can get a call today, a business need is a and then tomorrow the business needs be. And so we’re really just going to try to figure out what is going to be the best solution for them and not just push VR, because it’s cool that the other side of it is you can push it get a project. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to end up with some success, and if it’s not going to end up success, and why even do it.
Luis Malbas 20:21
Right. Right. So I want to just ask about this, like one of the things that, you know, when you were talking about, you know, like, say using it for people that like are, you know, sort of like risky sort of job situations, you know, like say firefighters are our, you know, emergency medical folks. Like, is there like being siloed off inside of kind of the virtual sort of headset? Is there move towards being you know, like having more experiences one on one experiences, like collaborative or team experiences within a virtual environment? You would mentioned something about that earlier. But
Andrew Hughes 21:02
yeah, go and that’s actually, it’s funny, you say that working on another one? I don’t think they haven’t ready, but we’re working on a VR experience. That’s actually a piggyback from a prior project that we did with the client over. Get that pizza in there.
Unknown Speaker 21:20
Andrew Hughes 21:23
Oh, I just lost my train of thought. Sorry, guys. Um, you know,
Luis Malbas 21:30
um, let’s turn off that. Can I turn off that screen share real quick, because maybe it’ll?
Unknown Speaker 21:35
Yeah, that’s probably why.
Luis Malbas 21:36
Okay, let me just close that video.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
I stop it here. I can stop there. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
You said you were working on something that was maybe more on the collaborative and social side? Yeah.
Andrew Hughes 21:50
So a couple years ago, we had a client who wanted to do a project with the Leap Motion device where we did sorting of
recycled material. And so they’ve come to us and said, you know, it’d be really cool if we do some of that in the VR experience, but we want to be able to integrate. So what we’ve done is we’ve gotten rid of the controllers for the Oculus
or the HTC Vive. So we’re controller list, and we integrated the Leap Motion. So now you’re going to be our experience, but you’re able to use your hands, which is far beyond what we’re able to do before.
So now all of a sudden, our hands will be available. We won’t have to have joysticks or controllers to do things. It really more of that immersive experience.
Luis Malbas 22:38
Wow. That’s that’s that’s really, really cool. I’m broadcasting
Andrew Hughes 22:42
from another window. I was like, What is going on?
Luis Malbas 22:45
That might be like the echo. I’m getting I have I have an echo.
Andrew Hughes 22:49
That might be it. Was it me the whole time? Because I’m a jerk. Right now. There’s no more echo. That’s how I got see this is amateur hour. This is the time where everybody gets a rip on me yet. Thanks, Craig.
Unknown Speaker 23:04
I know bro.
Unknown Speaker 23:07
Unknown Speaker 23:10
writer me from this place for so long. You know,
Luis Malbas 23:15
one of the things I wanted to sort of cover on this one that I think would be really interesting to just talk about. And I know I don’t know if I talked about this with Molly in the past, but I have with with some other folks is using virtual reality for like, say something like onboarding? Yeah. It’s to be a really big topic on in the TL DC circles. But like, have you seen it being used for that at all?
Andrew Hughes 23:36
Actually, you know, it’s funny as we actually did 360 video, which, to me, that’s not fully in VR, but you but you were able to do it because it was VR compatible, but it was built for the web browser. We did this for a large grocery company. And what it was is orientation of how to and where particular bursaries and things come in, when they come off the when they come in as pallets to the actual store, where do they go? How do they go? How do you stock? And what do you do, and we actually built those as 360 video experiences, where we went out and met with the training department, and then actually went into the store. And we set up the the free 60 cameras from recording all of that, so that they’re actually present the videos which are able to immersive Lee be there. And then we had, you know, actors and actresses, basically like Twilight Zone, but not you know, like, Hey, welcome, we’re going to show you how to do this now. So this is john. And you know, you’re in a 360 setting. So this is john. And John’s going to be showing you how to break down this palette. And then john would be doing that right then and there. And she’ll be talking to you standing there talking to you about it, basically, like they would in the actual orientation, like, watch him do it. And I’ll explain it to you. And then later on, after they got done with this orientation, overview of how to do that, they would actually go out and do it with those, say, a mentor, then they would be walking through after that with the mentor. So that was a really cool project. But that wasn’t fully like the VR headset. It can’t they could be in my opinion, I’ve always broken 3d, video and VR as two separate things. And I you and I had that conversation like I would go back to Samsung. And if I could, I would sue them for putting the word Samsung VR and that that headset? It should. Samsung 360 and got it over with it was a terrible marketing. It’s confused everyone and I blamed on Samsung. So you know,
Luis Malbas 25:38
Jenny just had a great question here. What is the benefit of doing that over just having people follow the process in the store?
Andrew Hughes 25:45
That’s a good question. Okay. So here’s one of the things that they found. One of the things that they realized is, if they’re able to provide it multiple times and have them do it multiple times, they’re going to remember it. So what they wanted do is familiarize them with it on a video before they actually came into the stores ensure that they already had a sense and an understanding how to do that. So when they went out into the stores, they were actually doing it with them. They’re not spending that additional time with the mentor walking them through it and doing it with them. They’re all right, you’ve already been shown how to do this, let’s see how well you’re doing. Let’s go. And they’re actually hitting the ground running and producing for this large grocery chain. They’re actually producing as new hires, not, you know, in my opinion, are not an asset to the company until the 90 days is over this company saying, hey, if we can expedite that by having them do this orientation, and a 360 experience, and they are told how to do it and what to do. So we get our lower levels of Bloom’s That way, when they actually walk in the door. And we have them go ahead and work with our mentor, we can actually have them go ahead and you know, break down these pallets and get the stuff in the store. So they’re doing doing the job right then and there rather than waiting and waiting and waiting to get that stuff done later on.
Luis Malbas 27:07
Right right now. That’s great. And she followed up with. So recall, retention consistency was part of the goal. And I yeah, I’d like to hear what are your thoughts on just that it specifically recall retention consistency? How is that like such a huge, you know, benefit for you know, using virtual reality?
Andrew Hughes 27:24
Well, my gosh, so this one’s a soapbox. So you’re going to be very careful with this one.
The only training that any corporation does, that is only just once his compliance training, because they have to show to the insurance companies that you guys have completed that in case of a violation of the general liability contract, which our company has to have, like everybody else. So our employees have to take compliance training to ensure if we do get sued that we’ve already covered all of that our basis with everyone that represents our company, outside of that compliance training. No human being has ever become an expert at anything by doing something once.
Unknown Speaker 28:15
End of story.
Unknown Speaker 28:17
Yeah. So I guess that GDPR training that I just took I I’m not an expert in that. So what you’re saying,
Andrew Hughes 28:25
Let me guess you’re gonna put a badge on LinkedIn and go ahead and say expert at the IP now. Yeah, that’s you.
It’s really true. I mean, look at any athlete, in any case, or any situation, any musician, any other form of real training, happens at a consistent pace, until you have built those neurological networks. And what your brain understands that can run those paths. You’ve learned that information, and your brain has now built it to remember that and to do it on call. Yeah, that doesn’t happen unless it’s consistent. And over a consistent period of time.
Unknown Speaker 29:07
That’s great. And is there
Andrew Hughes 29:09
no other work that way other than remembering?
Luis Malbas 29:12
Is there? Is there a particular Can you think of a success story right now as a training success story using virtual reality that you can give us?
Andrew Hughes 29:20
Oh, yeah, I’m, in our opinion, we have a few. First off, you guys have seen the Delta build. Delta has done an amazing job. Let me see if I can find the Delta Dr. Bill for you.
Not be a, that’s not going to be right. The Delta has put together an amazing Dr. Build, where what they did is they are orienting
Unknown Speaker 29:46
people to let me see if I can put it in Luis
Unknown Speaker 29:49
and you could share, buddy.
Andrew Hughes 29:51
Yeah. But Delta, what they did is they wanted to basically do orientation to flight attendants. And they wanted them to understand what to do it the plan, how to
manage and take care of the plane, inside the plane, and what to do, but they did not want to, you know, pull or have the facility in which they had a large plane sitting there, and which they can only do one or two people at a time. So what they’ve actually done is they’ve developed out a VR experience where you, they have all these different rooms, and each room is an empty training room. That open it up. I don’t know if that’s the right one. Open it right
Luis Malbas 30:27
now. So I’ve just got the
Andrew Hughes 30:31
WhatsApp, I’m getting it, I was getting super excited.
Unknown Speaker 30:34
Oh, here we go.
Unknown Speaker 30:38
And let me know where it goes. Okay. And I think I can actually
Unknown Speaker 30:48
hear the audio
Andrew Hughes 31:00
Oculus Rift. And they’ve taken the Oculus by
making these immersive experiences where you can be a stewardess or steward. And you were actually able to be trained on what to do and how to do it with inside of those planes and a immersive like experience.
Unknown Speaker 31:22
And so let me see if I can find the
Unknown Speaker 31:25
one I’m looking for it because that one was just a quick overview.
Andrew Hughes 31:30
Let me see out there it is mechanic crew. Sorry Luis
Here it is.
Unknown Speaker 31:38
Ma’am. Okay, let me bring that one up here.
Unknown Speaker 31:44
It’s like a movie almost.
Luis Malbas 31:47
Sorry, let me just full screen so you guys get the full effect and share.
Unknown Speaker 31:55
Share. There we go. Inside of the movie is super, super realistic, you’re able to like,
Unknown Speaker 32:01
touch and grab and hold on to things and not worried about hitting walls. I love it.
Unknown Speaker 32:07
The virtual reality is a result of a project that we started back in 2017. To really rewrite our entire new hire curriculum, we wanted to introduce some new technology will want it to take it from an instructor driven program to a learner driven program. We’re going to have you finishing up this lesson, please. It’s getting our flight attendants, the new hires a chance to get inside the aircraft and actually see it as a virtual setting. Yeah, go ahead, do your own challenge first. For me though, there are 12 rooms that are set up in the space that we have behind us. And those 12 rooms are linked to one, one integrated instructor station where an instructor can review 12 students at the same time. By increasing the number of students in the class at one time, we were able to reduce the number of months it took to train of number of flight attendants. So Miss Perez, we’re going to have you finishing up this lesson, please. And if you’d come on out, or having to max out on your time, the system is designed to translate students on how to open doors, how to open emergency exits, and how to pre check their emergency equipment on an aircraft, everything’s pretty self guided, it gives you a choice of airplane to use. Right now we have the 737 787,
Unknown Speaker 33:13
triple seven, and a 321 aircraft. I’m a very visual learner. So to be able to go into the aircraft and actually see the seats, see the overhead compartments, you can even open the laboratory doors and walk inside the lab, it really gives me a complete perspective of exactly what this aircraft looks like. We integrated a system that they can actually use their hands and reach and touch. And that was important for us, because we’re trying to build muscle memory with a lot of the door operations, they can open a door, if they can make errors like blow a slide, it’s reset at the push of one button. If they make an error, we can step them back one step in the process. And they can continually train over and over and over again. So they get a door, right? They prompt you and they let you like make mistakes without instructors or nervous students behind you, you are anxious, and then think of really helps the flight attendant put into their cognitive mind that one little mistake can make a huge error. And this lets them do that in that safe environment. It definitely does. Because we confidence go down to the field, I look at this as being something else for American and having us be the complete innovator. Once again, in the airline world, we’ve always known that American has a rich tradition of being the first and a lot of the things we do. And we’re very excited to announce that we are the first airline in the world to introduce virtual reality for our flight attendants.
Andrew Hughes 34:33
So I think that’s pretty fascinating, in my opinion, because again, looking at those cans on experiences. And if you guys noticed the fidelity of the 3d models, it wasn’t, you know, super hyper realistic for what they were doing on the hands on training, that necessarily is not does not need to be the case, it’s about the processes. Like we all know what a door handle looks like, if the door handle is gray or gold, that doesn’t matter subtly change our ability to open or close the door. And so a lot of times, we have to fight over fidelity and quality. So that’s another thing that people need to keep in mind is it’s about them actually doing what you want them to do in there and not necessarily how pretty it is. It can be pretty, but it doesn’t need to be pretty, pretty sick.
Luis Malbas 35:22
Yeah, it was interesting that both the both the the videos that you referenced were from from airlines or transportation, you can see like how that would really, really benefit that particular space.
Andrew Hughes 35:34
Oh, absolutely. And I think of, you know, all of those individuals that are working out in public works, those individuals that are working just in those highly stressful physical jobs and how this could really save them from hurting themselves, or even being able to train themselves and be safer. So that nothing happens in the future. Yeah,
Luis Malbas 36:05
yeah. I’d be interested to see if anybody in the audience has done any work like doing any development for like virtual reality or augmented reality spaces. It seems like when, you know, outside of maybe the guild event that does that. That’s a verte.
Yeah, the realities conference, I rarely run into folks that are actually building, building mixed realities for training. I think, you know, I know Molly does. But, you know, I like these examples, I would love to see these somewhere, you know, like to be able to actually look so that more people can can understand, you know, like, this is what is available. This is what people are actually doing, because I feel like I just don’t see that enough.
Andrew Hughes 36:51
Yeah, there’s this part, I think it’s a lot to do, like I said before about some of the hardware limitations. So when they are doing these, like, I can guarantee you’re looking at that American Airlines build that we just saw, I mean, you and I, both Luis you and I have talked hardware pricing before, you know, they’re probably 2500 per backpack right there, at least so you know, in my opinion, until they can get them down to the Oculus size, but give you the emotion tracking your hands, we’re going to be limited in that regard. That’s why in the beginning, I was like, you know, ar is still very popular because everyone has a phone and there’s no additional technology hardware that we need. So as we go forward, we’re going to see on as the technology decreases, you will see more and more examples of that. And for anybody, I just saw that Molly thank you for posting that Molly a military Luis you and I’ve had a conversation even with Brent about insect. And I’ve been insect many of times, they are light years ahead of us in the corporate training round when it comes to VR simulations, that kind of stuff. But you know, each one of their builds is millions of dollars, not 10s of thousands of dollars. So it’s a vastly different experience. And the reason why is, you know, their military, their simulations save lives? And in my opinion, I don’t know, if you have, you can put $1 amount on that.
Unknown Speaker 38:17
Luis Malbas 38:19
So is that would that be an instance of like some of the most impressive builds that you’ve seen out there
Andrew Hughes 38:24
in the VR space in the simulated VR space? Absolutely. I absolutely, because they’re using some pretty flipped out stuff. Not only are they using the VR, but they’re using the ball, the hollow sphere ball, where you can run around like a hamster with a machine gun, you know, the machine guns got infrared that’s working within the 3d environment. And you can basically run your entire processes, your military processes for breaching a home or reaching an area with inside of a basically a large hamster wheel connected to a bunch of wires that’s connected to the headset that’s connected to the gun that you have, so that you can have this fully immersive environment. And they were doing that back in 2007. Hmm, oh, I was an insect. And they had the the hamster bond, which I got to do that back then. So, you know, they are lightyears ahead of us in that regard. But to get into that realm, you know, you’re you’re you, you’re messing with Lockheed and Boeing and Raytheon. Yeah. So they’ve been doing that a long time.
Luis Malbas 39:31
Yeah, yeah, they definitely got the, the the funds to be able to pull that stuff off. I know, I used to work in manufacturing, I used to work for a company that, that, that, that put together insulated glass for Windows, and these guys would like, you know, carry around, like these huge sheets of glass, you know, and load them into these machines, so they can glue the two pieces of glass together. And, you know, I used to do that work, I actually have the scars on my hands to prove it. And, and I always wish that like I could have had back then was, you know, for a dangerous job like that. Because if one of these panes of glass with just snapping your hands, and, you know, you were kind of just done for, you know, there was just such a Rick risk just getting trained for this stuff. But, you know, I could see like in manufacturing how, how virtual reality could be really, really beneficial to, to sort of risky jobs like that.
Andrew Hughes 40:29
We have one, we have one with a large healthcare company, to repair and ma MRI machine
is pretty fascinating to do. Yeah, yeah. You know,
those machines are millions of millions of dollars, I guess, send somebody out. And they had to train them hands on on those machines, this could save them a ton of money. And they can do that virtually, if they really wanted to, by mailing out a headset, and having them do that. And then, you know, make that their training, and then come in and do some hands on to kind of speed up that onboarding process.
Luis Malbas 41:07
Yeah, yeah, I’ve seen, you know, and along those same lines, just sort of, I’ve seen some really amazing sort of, like, augmented reality experiences for people that are in medicine, you know, oh, yeah. Yeah, just surgery, just the human body. And, you know, and so maybe just moving into that a little bit. You You had listed something about the Lowes hollow room experiences, what are those about?
Andrew Hughes 41:33
Okay, so for the light hollow room and hollow decks? Over that’s okay, so Lowes actually did, it’s really cool this innovation lab, where basically they’re teaching you customers, on how to install tile, and basically giving you this test drive of being able to do hands on projects with inside of this experience, with out, you know, doing it yourself and, and hurting yourself, or, you know, ruining your floors, things like that. Right. Now, the cool part is is, you know, they have, I’m saying if I can open up this video for you. Let me see if I can send you this video.
Luis Malbas 42:20
Is this something that you use with the hollow lens? Or is this an actual virtual fully VR experience.
Andrew Hughes 42:26
So it’s actually a fully Oculus Rift VR experience, and HTC Vive. And here, let me just show you.
They have it on Facebook. So I’ll just send you guys the link right now. And it’s super cool. Because you can depending on who you are, and what you’re interested in, you can actually if you got if you want to play that video, you can share. And what it is, is they have the ability for you to utilize gloves. And you basically you get to test out each one of their eight pieces of equipment virtually, to see how it works and holding tips and how to do particular things with particular devices at Lowes that you may not have used before. And so for many of you are
Unknown Speaker 43:18
Unknown Speaker 43:19
me turn that down. Okay.
Andrew Hughes 43:21
Go ahead. No, you’re fine.
How many of you have ever tile deployed first time you do it? Oh, that’s, you know. And so what we’ve, what they’ve done is build out this experience where you get to test each one of the equipment, see how it works. And then from there, give you a better understanding of what you can and can’t what you could and couldn’t do with each one of the hardware devices. They have a
Unknown Speaker 43:47
guided shaping and designing session.
Unknown Speaker 43:50
When I saw the hollow thing, I thought we were going to be working.
Andrew Hughes 43:54
Yeah, they they just came up with this virtual reality.
Unknown Speaker 44:02
controllers, features, controllers use attached machines. It’s really interesting, right? upwards of 10 AR and VR pilots.
Unknown Speaker 44:11
As soon as that they come talk to us, we’ll get rid of those controllers for
Unknown Speaker 44:17
VR experience. Wow. There’s no question. Virtual Reality reaches well beyond visualization. that lends itself to straight education solutions.
Andrew Hughes 44:27
And I know some of you were talking on, I think it was Mark or Molly or someone that had stated Oh, wait, it was Johnny about the chain song. And Luis you saw this, we came up with this couple years ago, we had a company that wanted to do a training simulation on how to cut down trees in a residential location. So what we ended up doing is building this for the vibe or Lyft and the Oculus go, and it’s gonna be our traffic drop. And it’s basically just a free forum for you to learn and to cut the tree on a residential location. But the actual training piece was built around the proper steps and procedures, those were actually cut out. And what we did is we asked for permission if we could put this on Steam as just a free VR experience. And this came out in August of 2017. So we launched this quite a while ago. And it’s free for anybody that wants to try it. And you can just download it on Steam. And if you got a VR headset, you can play it right then in there.
Luis Malbas 45:32
Yeah, it’s so cool. I actually have tried that. It’s really, really fun. It’s, it’s, it’s it’s a blast.
Andrew Hughes 45:40
I’ll tell you you know what the funny part is? We found all these. You know what I thought was
really funny as we went on, let me see if I can find it. There it is.
It’s really crazy to think like YouTubers, you know how they play video games, and then review them.
Drop and drop, which I thought was pretty crazy. So the YouTube video I just provided is somebody actually playing?
I don’t know what that one is. But let me find you a different one. Don’t put that one in. Oh,
Luis Malbas 46:26
it wasn’t a review.
Andrew Hughes 46:30
Yeah, there’s one here that I want to grab. Okay. Oh, yeah. Might be popped to review.
Unknown Speaker 46:37
Andrew Hughes 46:39
So yeah, there were quite a few different VR, our reviews, like people actually playing it. And then giving feedback almost like cutie pie. Thank God, it wasn’t created by them.
Unknown Speaker 46:53
Okay, here we go. Let me share this
Andrew Hughes 46:55
quite fascinating. It was, you know, had been playing and cutting and
enjoying doing it. And then there was somebody that, you know, they they had quite a few people that were that would do commentary, which was really funny. They’re like, Oh, whoops. It was hilarious. But I don’t know.
Luis Malbas 47:19
I love stuff like that.
Andrew Hughes 47:21
I thought about it was comical, because we were able to see as what everyone wants to see. Which is
do you actually have users interact with us? And you can see what the user experience was. So we were actually able to see that by these individuals doing that recording. Oh, that must be so
Unknown Speaker 47:45
yeah, that’s really, really helpful.
Andrew Hughes 47:48
Yeah, not the one of that guy was just talking about it, because I’ve never seen that one that I sent you guys. But outside of that, there’s a ton of these. Yeah, I don’t know what he was talking about. I’m not saying.
So there were.
And it just gave us a bigger perspective on what to do.
Unknown Speaker 48:14
In the future, for
Andrew Hughes 48:26
Here you go. Here’s our YouTube, YouTube guy. Boom.
Unknown Speaker 48:30
Andrew Hughes 48:32
Oh, yeah. We didn’t add hearing protection. Sorry, guys.
Unknown Speaker 48:39
Andrew Hughes 48:41
it was it was just it was interesting, in my opinion, because you got to see, gentlemen, I reflect back on what they thought on it.
Luis Malbas 48:50
Okay, let me just, oh, I ended up sorry, share that screen there. And look at this guy, such a serious look VR game
Unknown Speaker 49:00
here called a chop and drop VR, you are moving a little bucket, kind of like crane thing that you’re in to reach high up branches and trees, and you chop them down with a chainsaw. The game is totally free. So let’s play. Alright, so here I am in the game on this lovely streets ready to go.
Andrew Hughes 49:20
All those crazy things I didn’t know you got a 10. We don’t get to see this part of the learner.
Unknown Speaker 49:26
But I don’t think let’s just start
Andrew Hughes 49:29
with the feedback we get to see if they completed it or not. We don’t actually give you experience what they experienced.
Unknown Speaker 49:38
Oh, I did not know you can go higher and lower.
Andrew Hughes 49:41
So there’s an indicator for us. They didn’t even have any idea that go higher and lower. Yes, it is free user testing. Amazing, isn’t it?
Unknown Speaker 49:49
Yeah, no, that is really, really, really cool.
Andrew Hughes 49:53
So you just the one thing I tell our team is you never know where your your stuff will end up. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Then you gotta cut with the lines are.
Luis Malbas 50:01
All right. So let’s see, I’ve got about five, six minutes left. And I want to talk about the future of VR, as you see it.
Oh, and the future of VR and learning in particular, of course. I mean, give us the Andrew us take on what’s going to be happening in the next year, the next three years, the next five years? What do you see?
Andrew Hughes 50:22
Whoo, good question. Well, first off, we’re seeing new Oculus, Oculus and HTC Vive are coming out with new devices here. So we want to keep an eye on those because as we see, within the next two years, in my opinion, price points will get down, you’ll see probably two iterations of oculus coming. And when those come, they will be cheaper and cheaper. Looking at what I have heard and what I’m looking at it, as you know, they’re trying to get something under $100 that we can use on a daily basis. They’re trying to basically make the act of this going other Oculus experiences outside of their high end by to be equivalent to the Google Chrome books. That way they can be a household device. And that’s really what Oculus is pushing for. HTC is trying to do the same thing. But you know, Oculus was the first to hit the ground running with the go. And you’re also going to see, you know, they have the rift s coming out, which is the higher end version of a risk for anybody that hasn’t seen that yet, which is going to give even more quality and fidelity. And so you’re going to see more adaptation as technology becomes cheaper and cheaper. In the next five years. In my opinion, I said this before, and I’m going to say it again, it drives me nuts that the cell phone is just with me, but not as a part of me. So I would love to be able to get rid of this and have it here. But I would also love to be able to figure out a way to utilize more of that virtual desktop like I talked to you about. I find myself staring at a screen all the time. And I find myself needing multiple screens. So in my opinion, I think we’re going to end up I hope we don’t in our cubicles with VR headsets on in 10 years. That would be amazing. But it would also be very sad because we’re already already looking down at our phones all the time. Yeah, so it’s just it’s scary Luis In my opinion, I think this is a excellent way for our society to go for training for learning purposes for safety. But I also think as a society, it pushes us closer and closer to isolation from each other. And for some odd reason, that’s what we’ve done in society. Anyways, we went from our towns or communities to our neighborhoods, where our streets, to our houses, and now to our tablets to our phones, and soon we’ll just be have something chapter heads. Yeah, I’m not thinking scary, guys. But, you know, that’s, that’s my anticipation. Wow.
Luis Malbas 53:03
Yeah, no, I and in fact, I personally, sort of, you know, just, uh, you know, and this is kind of like a side note, I’m trying to really try to get away from the screen as much as I can. I mean, I sit in front of one basically, for at least 10 hours a day. But you know, as you know, you know, just that family life, you want to be kind of present there for, you know, for those, those two beautiful boys that you have, you know, you just want to
see enough of like that they can at least see your eyes here in there, you know?
Unknown Speaker 53:32
Unknown Speaker 53:34
Yeah, no, it’s just yeah.
Andrew Hughes 53:36
You already know this. Unfortunately, if you’re going to try to see me if you try to email me or see me, during the day, it’s not going to happen. And you’re probably not going to see me on social media during the day. because of that reason, I’m trying to run the operations of the company on top of my little guys.
Unknown Speaker 53:55
Andrew Hughes 53:57
on top of, I’m still following. I’m still teaching on the line. So yeah.
Luis Malbas 54:04
So do you think that’s one of the big blocks? I mean, what was one of the biggest challenges that like, you know, mixed realities has? And just the fact that it can you end up getting isolated so much?
Unknown Speaker 54:17
Andrew Hughes 54:19
I think we’re doing that as a society as a whole. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 54:22
yeah. No, that’s a really good, I think,
Andrew Hughes 54:24
I think I think we, you Luis you and I had this conversation. And this is getting very philosophical, which, you know,
because I love looking at the psychology of humans and, and structures and that, and, in my opinion, you know, the media and our society is scared us into our homes. And we’re now addicted to our phones, which now we have this friendships that aren’t physical. And we’re not really all there in our physical environment. So VR, actually, I hate to say it lends itself to adapt to that pretty quickly. The history is the technical hardware and the hindrance of getting people into that space, when they aren’t as familiar. So when you see a large scale adaptation of what they’re trying to do with the Oculus go across society as a whole. It won’t be adapted as fast as let’s say, AR, or, you know, phone apps or things like that.
Luis Malbas 55:22
Right. That’s really, really, I you know, I have to say that even for me when I get on the vibe nowadays, I mean, I know that there’s a period of time where I was really into like, say, Space Pirate trainer, and yeah, that’s the other one that came with the beats. I can’t remember. You’re just, you’ve got the lightsabers. I can’t remember that. Let’s go. Yeah. Oh,
Andrew Hughes 55:44
yeah. I’m like a flat. Yeah. But Guitar Hero,
Luis Malbas 55:49
when I now when I turned it on, I like to go into, like, say, I go into the the Google Earth, you know,
simulation, and I end up like going out to the desert. And just like, sitting there like at sunset and just looking around, like, those are kind of my favorite experiences. And then I don’t know what that exactly says about my relationship to, you know,
to simulations, or even to stimulation nowadays. But that tends to be my, you know, the choice I have now. It’s like when I get in there. I just like to go somewhere where I can chill out.
Andrew Hughes 56:26
Which is ironic considering you live in California, and I’m in Ohio and the work day in California is better than the nice day in Ohio.
Luis Malbas 56:35
Oh, man, you should be here nowadays. It’s absolutely amazing right now.
Andrew Hughes 56:41
I actually will be I’ll be there.
I’m heading up the learner Palooza next week in Seattle. Oh, nice. And then I have to come to LA over the weekend. So next weekend. Awesome.
Unknown Speaker 56:56
So yeah, we’re work related.
Unknown Speaker 57:00
Yeah. Nice. Okay, man, well,
Andrew Hughes 57:04
that’s gaming play virtual virtual reality. I posted the link. If you guys do have a VR headset. The reason why is virtual virtual reality, you’re basically a worker for the machines instead of the machines working for you. And you have to get jobs and you’re basically like this captain’s worker for the machines and your job is to make the machines happy. And at the same time, you’re trying to figure out how to break out of the place. And it is amazing. The story alone blows my mind.
Luis Malbas 57:42
Okay, who can you play it on? Ours? Do you need like a Fiverr riff
Andrew Hughes 57:47
you played on the girl you played on the vibe? You can play it on the Rift, whatever you want to play it on. You can’t play it on the samsung VR because that’s not real.
Unknown Speaker 57:59
All right, I want to put in my favorite one to the wave. Oh, it’s called. Yeah,
Andrew Hughes 58:03
way be our sweet.
Luis Malbas 58:06
Yeah, I love going in there. It’s kind of I mean, it’s a little psychedelic, but I don’t know. It’s It’s, it’s, it’s super fun. You know,
Unknown Speaker 58:15
I love that stuff.
Luis Malbas 58:18
Andrew, thank you so much for sharing today with us. I always love talking to you. You’re one of the coolest people I know, and probably the coolest person in l&d
Andrew Hughes 58:29
ever, but you’re making me blush you can’t even barely see me
Luis Malbas 58:33
know my thing right now by saying that. But I just wanna say thank you again for everything. And thank you for your support with with TL DC. We just love having you. And I’m looking forward to talking to you again next month. And we’ll push all this stuff out. Get some conversations about this is actually like,
it’s given me some I want to activate some of the ideas that I you know, through this conversation
Unknown Speaker 58:57
will keep talking.
Andrew Hughes 58:59
Yeah, thank you guys. Sorry about the audio. My apologies. And sorry about the computer. I have, I’m over to so now I got.
Yep. So thank you. And sorry, guys, for all the hassle. If anybody has any questions or anything you can always give me shoot me an email at designing digitally calm. Also, I know, our research team has been doing quite a bit of work when it comes to infographics and white papers. So I’ll post a couple there. We’ve been working on the VR, white papers, infographics for the request of the industry, because again, they have the same situations where they’re trying to justify this. So there are some of those for you guys to take a look at the download. And thank you guys so much for your time today.
Luis Malbas 59:48
Absolutely. And just so y’all know, I’ve been doing more extensive sort of blog posts after each one of these broadcasts. And I’ll have all kinds of notes from this in that one, including all of the links that were posted in the chat. So, so keep an eye out for that. And thanks again, everybody. We’ll see you next time. We’ve got the big, we’ve got the competency model models playlist tomorrow. So make sure you’re registered for that. We’ve already got like 40 people or something registered for that. So
hopefully we’ll see you then. All right. Take care, everybody.